Bluesky’s New CEO Aims for Comprehensive Growth

Today, I’m chatting with Toni Schneider, the new CEO of the social platform Bluesky, who recently transitioned from interim CEO to the permanent role. This interview is particularly exciting for me because we previously had Bluesky’s former CEO, Jay Graber, on the show, and she now serves as the chief innovation officer. The shift in leadership often brings fresh priorities, which is a fascinating topic to explore.

Bluesky is navigating multiple avenues: there’s the familiar Twitter-like social media app, and then there’s the underlying technology known as AT Protocol, which enables developers to create interoperable social networking products. Toni describes this ecosystem as vibrant and growing, affectionately dubbed the ATmosphere. However, the users of the Bluesky app and those building on AT Protocol have different needs and goals, which can create tension within the company. I wanted to hear how Toni plans to balance these dynamics with a relatively small team.

Toni previously led Automattic, the company behind WordPress, and he draws parallels between the current state of social networking and the early days of the web. He envisions a thriving ecosystem with diverse players, a vision that may take years to fully realize. However, the current landscape of social media is fragmented, with many platforms either shrinking or becoming cluttered with low-quality content. We also discussed Bluesky’s reputation as a haven for left-leaning users, contrasting it with the more right-leaning environment of X, and explored potential revenue generation strategies beyond traditional advertising.

This conversation touches on many themes relevant to the evolving landscape of social media. Let’s dive in with Bluesky CEO Toni Schneider.

Toni, welcome to the show! You’re now the permanent CEO of Bluesky, and I’m eager to discuss the open social web, which I believe is crucial for media today. While it may not get as much attention as AI, the development of interoperable social networks is significant. You’ve been a proponent of this since your time at Automattic. Can you share your vision for Bluesky and the opportunities you see with these new types of networks?

Bluesky today consists of two main components: the Bluesky app, which many users know as a social network that prioritizes human interaction without ads or algorithms, and the AT Protocol, an open protocol that supports over a thousand apps. The goal of Bluesky is to showcase how this open protocol can scale and attract developers to create various social experiences that interconnect, which we believe is essential for the future of social media. Our mission is to ensure that social media serves the public good, which is why we focused on building the protocol first.

The interplay between the Bluesky app and the AT Protocol is a compelling aspect of your role. Jay Graber, the former CEO, has transitioned to chief innovation officer, and you’ve taken on the full-time CEO position after serving as interim. What led you to step into this role permanently?

It’s inspiring to see a founder like Jay, who has dedicated six years to this project, transition into a role focused on vision and innovation. She recognized that the company had reached a scale where her strengths could be better utilized in building and innovating, especially with the rise of AI. I was already involved as an investor and had been following the project closely. When the team approached me, I agreed to be interim CEO, and after a few months of hands-on work, I found the role increasingly rewarding. The timing was right for me to shift my focus to Bluesky full-time.

As interim CEO, did you feel any limitations in your decision-making compared to being the full-time CEO?

Internally, the role didn’t feel drastically different. However, dropping the “interim” title is significant for the external community, signaling my commitment to the long-term vision. While the internal responsibilities remained similar, the external perception of stability and continuity is crucial for the ATmosphere and the developers involved.

In your note upon becoming full-time CEO, you mentioned that we’re at the beginning of a long journey with a decade of work ahead. How does that long-term perspective influence your decision-making process?

I find it helpful to categorize decisions as reversible or irreversible. Many decisions can be made quickly and adjusted later, but some have long-term implications that require careful consideration. In this project, certain protocol-level decisions will have lasting effects, and I’m focused on ensuring that our choices align with our mission for the long haul. I’m comfortable with a longer timeframe, as this endeavor is about building a sustainable ecosystem rather than rushing to scale.

The balance between the Bluesky app and the AT Protocol is intriguing. Under Jay’s leadership, there was a strong emphasis on developing the protocol, but now that the app has gained traction, how do you see the relationship between the two evolving?

I view the Bluesky app as a gateway to the ATmosphere, introducing users to a broader range of experiences beyond just microblogging. For instance, we recently saw the emergence of a format called Standard Site, which allows for longer-form content and integrates seamlessly with our app. This collaboration among various apps enhances the user experience and showcases the potential of the AT Protocol.

With Bluesky currently at around 50 employees, how is the team structured to manage the dual focus on the app and the protocol?

Our team is small but effective, organized into small, focused groups. We have three core product teams: one for the Bluesky app, one for the ATmosphere, and a new exploration team working on innovative projects like Attie, which integrates AI into our ecosystem. This structure allows us to remain agile and responsive to the needs of both users and developers.

Moderation is a critical aspect of any social platform. How does Bluesky approach moderation, especially as the user base grows and the network becomes more complex?

Moderation is indeed a significant challenge. We have a dedicated moderation team, but our system is designed to be composable, allowing other developers to implement their own moderation strategies. This distributed approach means that the burden of moderation doesn’t fall solely on one team, enabling various communities to establish their own standards.

Looking ahead, private data and community spaces are becoming increasingly important. How is Bluesky planning to address the demand for more private, membership-based experiences?

We recognize the need for private spaces within the AT Protocol, and we’re actively working on this. Our community has expressed a strong desire for more private options, and we’re building features that will allow users to create their own communities while still benefiting from the broader network. This will enhance user experience and foster a sense of ownership.

As we discuss the future of Bluesky, I’m curious about your thoughts on the app’s identity. Given its current reputation, how do you envision expanding its user base beyond its existing demographic?

We aim to broaden Bluesky’s appeal beyond a single political identity. We’ve made strides in attracting diverse communities, such as sports enthusiasts, and we want to continue this trend. Our goal is to create an inclusive environment where various interests can thrive, and we’re committed to fostering positive interactions across the platform.

This has been a fascinating conversation, and I look forward to seeing how Bluesky evolves, especially with the upcoming features and community initiatives. Thank you for joining me today, Toni.