The organization helping creators avoid the pitfalls of influencer culture

We’ve got an exciting episode of Decoder today, recorded at the Cannes Lions advertising festival in the South of France. I’m chatting with Ali Berman and Raina Penchansky, who lead the Creators division at a major talent agency.

This agency is a powerhouse in the industry, representing a vast array of talent you’ve likely seen or heard of. For full transparency, I’m also a client, as they facilitated the sale of my upcoming book, which adds a unique twist to our conversation.

But let’s focus on Ali and Raina, who oversee a division that represents some of the biggest names in the creator space, including influencers like Charli D’Amelio, Markiplier, Kai Cenat, and Emma Chamberlain.

I was eager to learn how they spot emerging talent, collaborate with them to build sustainable businesses, and navigate the complexities of being a top creator. These individuals are running multimillion-dollar enterprises with diverse revenue streams. Ali and Raina share insights on what it takes to establish these businesses, the types of deals they negotiate, and how their approach differs from the traditional Hollywood model, where agents simply take a cut.

At this agency, they’re actively helping creators launch their own products, which is fascinating as today’s stars transition from content creation to product development. Not every creator can make this leap, so I wanted to understand how Ali and Raina guide their clients through this process and what factors contribute to their success.

We also delved into the impact of AI and various platforms, both of which pose challenges to the creator ecosystem. Ali and Raina maintain a refreshingly calm perspective on these developments, even as they represent some VTubers.

There’s a lot to unpack here, and I think you’ll find it engaging.

Let’s dive in: Ali Berman and Raina Penchansky, welcome to Decoder.

Ali Berman: Thank you.

Raina Penchansky: Thanks for having us.

I’m thrilled to have you both here. I need to mention upfront that I’m a client of the agency, which adds an interesting layer to our discussion. I’m hoping this creates a bit of a stir in the journalism world!

I’m really curious about how the Creators division operates. You both have extensive experience in this field. One of the themes of Decoder is that the structure of organizations reveals a lot about their operations, and I know the Creators division has undergone some reorganization. You both took the helm in 2024.

We’re at Cannes, where creators are everywhere, and they represent the future of advertising. There’s a significant amount of money circulating at this festival and in the advertising world. Can you explain how the agency collaborates with creators, the structure of your division, your backgrounds, and how we got to this point?

AB: I’m entering my 16th year at the agency. My entire career has been in talent representation, starting at another agency before moving here in a moment reminiscent of Jerry Maguire meets Entourage. I initially worked on the traditional literary side but was drawn to the internet, which was then very blog-centric. It was a time of self-discovery without algorithms guiding you.

At that time, the agency was developing a digital department that encompassed anything outside traditional film or TV. I joined that division as an entrepreneur, focusing on artists who were building their own communities and connecting directly with consumers. I believed there would come a time when monetizing those communities would be possible, and I helped shape what became the digital talent division.

Around the same time, our third co-head, Oren Rosenbaum, was doing similar work on the audio side. The agency was the first in Hollywood to view artists in a non-traditional light. We’re celebrating our 20th year as the Creators division.

Oren was building a similar structure on the audio side. We also acquired two companies, one focused on gaming and esports. I’ll pass it over to Raina to continue.

RP: I co-founded Digital Brand Architects (DBA) 16 years ago, before Instagram even launched. My background is in traditional marketing, and I was captivated by bloggers who were building direct relationships with their audiences. Coming from fashion and marketing, I was used to a top-down approach, so it was exciting to see these street-style influencers creating their own media properties without realizing it.

During my time at my previous brand, I worked with many women in fashion who would come to me for advice on brand collaborations. I became a sort of mentor, guiding them on how to build their brands. It was an organic process, and I was inspired by their storytelling.

Fast forward to 2019, when the agency acquired DBA, and now it operates within UTA Creators. I serve as CEO of DBA and co-head alongside Ali and Oren. We maintain a clear separation between management and agency roles, but we have a shared support system.

We have teams focused on brand partnerships, product development, and data analytics, placing us at the center of the so-called creator economy. While everyone is talking about creators, we’re also looking ahead to what the next chapter will be.

What inspires us is setting new standards, just as we did 20 years ago. We’re constantly discussing where to raise the bar next. At this festival, the opportunities are limitless. For the first time, I feel like we’ve truly arrived in the direct-to-consumer creator space, which is now inescapable for both brands and artists.

RP: I keep reflecting on how different Cannes Lions feels today compared to 10 or 15 years ago. The energy is palpable, and it’s fascinating to see how creators are now at the forefront of advertising. It feels like a significant shift.

I’m struck by how many people seem to have just discovered the creator economy, or are pretending it’s new.

Let’s unpack the agency world for a moment. You mentioned the separation between agency and management. Many people still think of agents in the traditional sense, like Ari Gold from Entourage. Your business model seems to be about building businesses for creators rather than just signing deals with studios. Can you explain the difference between management and agency roles?

RP: In the creator space, the roles are quite different from traditional models. Creators wear many hats, engaging in content creation, strategy, and brand perception. They’re building experiences and events that extend beyond their online content. The relationship between managers and agents is nuanced, as both roles are multifaceted.

Managers handle the day-to-day aspects of content creation and offline projects, while agents focus on the business side. It’s a delicate balance, and Ali can elaborate on the agent perspective.

AB: Reflecting on the evolution of our division, there’s never been a better time to be a creator represented by an agency. In the past, many creators relied solely on brand deals, but now our clients are diversifying their revenue streams. With a dedicated creator division, we help them navigate the various facets of their careers, leveraging our expertise across different entertainment sectors.

I’d like to propose a structural analogy. Traditional media companies had extensive infrastructure, including finance and licensing divisions, while talent worked for studios. It seems like your agency is decentralizing talent representation, providing the necessary infrastructure for creators to thrive without needing to manage every aspect of their business. Is that an accurate way to view it?

AB: That’s an interesting perspective. Our clients are the modern media businesses, but they don’t necessarily have the same overhead. They often have teams that help them manage their finances and operations. While we’re decentralizing, there’s still a level of centralization within their own organizations.

Big media companies are facing challenges, particularly with distribution. As viewership shifts away from traditional broadcasts, the structures of these companies must adapt.

RP: Absolutely. We’re figuring out how to optimize for the new landscape of media companies. Creators are becoming their own media entities, and we’re helping them navigate that transition.

This brings me to the structure of your operations. Many people see creators as simply producing content, but it sounds like there’s a complex business process behind the scenes. How do you manage that?

AB: We maintain regular communication with our clients, whether it’s weekly, biweekly, or monthly. From the moment we start working together, we establish an overall strategy, similar to how a company operates.

I’m curious about the decision-making process in this fast-evolving space. How do you approach decisions when there’s no predictable framework?

AB: We often say “no” to about 90% of opportunities. This focus allows us to concentrate on the 10% that truly aligns with our clients’ goals. Building a relationship with clients is essential, as understanding their vision helps us guide them effectively.

RP: Decision-making in our field combines both logic and intuition. We analyze data and trends, but the magic lies in recognizing potential and creativity in content.

AB: We’re not threatened by AI; instead, we see it as a tool that can enhance our clients’ capabilities. The human connection remains vital in helping artists navigate their careers.

RP: I’ve been described as having a knack for discerning good brand deals. It’s about trusting your instincts and understanding the creator’s relationship with their audience.

AB: It’s easy to fall into a transactional mindset, but discernment and a unique point of view are what truly shape a creator’s brand.

RP: The most exciting opportunities often come from thinking outside the box. We brainstorm together to identify innovative ideas and practical steps to achieve them.

AB: We ask our clients about their goals and build strategies to reach them.

How do you maintain that cadence of meetings and updates with creators?

AB: We’re in regular contact with our clients, updating them on projects and strategies, similar to how a traditional company operates.

As we discuss creators, it’s clear that each has a unique business model. How do you identify and approach potential clients?

AB: We believe that partnering with talent early on is beneficial for their growth. Our goal is to allow them to focus on creating while we handle the business side.

What’s your pitch like when reaching out to a creator you want to sign?

AB: I can’t reveal all my secrets, but I look for a personal connection and a strong work ethic. I want to work with individuals who have a distinct voice, as that’s crucial for standing out in a crowded space.

RP: My outreach involves building genuine relationships and demonstrating our commitment to their success.

AB: Our work speaks for itself, and we rely on positive experiences from our clients to attract new talent.

RP: I’m often in my clients’ DMs, engaging with their content and suggesting ideas for collaboration.

AB: We’re moving at the speed of content, adapting quickly to new opportunities.

RP: Exactly. The fast-paced nature of our industry means we need to be agile and responsive.

AB: We’re constantly evaluating new opportunities and adjusting our strategies accordingly.

As we wrap up, I want to touch on the future of platforms. What do you see as the next big thing on the horizon?

AB: I believe we’ll see a resurgence in live content, expanding beyond gaming and streaming into other categories.

RP: And let’s not forget about Gen Alpha, who will shape the future of content consumption.

What’s next for your agency?

RP: It’s hard to pinpoint specifics, as we’re always exploring new directions and opportunities.

AB: We’re continuously adapting to the evolving landscape, moving at the speed of content.

Thank you both for this insightful conversation. It’s been a pleasure having you on Decoder.